A Framework for Change | Ep. 9

Dane: [00:00]
You're not going anywhere if you don't at least have as a starting point, that you're committed to something. But don't expect that commitment to get you where you really want to go.

Dane: [00:09]
A lot of people say they want change, they don't like the way their life is going, but they would unconsciously prefer to keep things the way they are, to stay off the hook, to not be responsible.

Dane: [00:20]
Once you know where you're at, you'll know what the right next thing is to do.

Dane: [00:24]
If you're frustrated, tired of where you're at, you say you want change to happen, what you don't want to do is do the same thing you've done over and over again that's gotten the same results. It's time to pause and ask yourself, which stage am I at?

Dane: [00:37]
as humans we prefer the path of least resistance. We crave convenience, the payoff without the price. But when our lives revolve around comfort, it doesn't deliver. Living in perpetual comfort leaves us weak and asleep. This podcast is an invitation to flip that script, to choose the unlikely path, to get the life you really want through voluntary discomfort.

Dane: [01:01]
This is Strong and Awake. I'm Dane Sanders.

Mitch: [01:06]
We all want change, and yet, why is it that so few of us actually are able to navigate that change, to actually transform? We, we have a go at it every year, at least. And what is, why do some people succeed and some people don't, Dane?

Dane: [01:23]
Well, before we even get into the real reason, let's be real about something.

Dane: [01:28]
A lot of people say they want to change, and they really don't. They really don't. They, it, it's, they're, they don't like the way they li their life is going, but they would, uh, unconsciously prefer to keep things the way they are. They get to stay off the hook. They get to not be responsible. And today's episode has nothing to do with those people.

Dane: [01:49]
If you're listening and you're actually wanting the status quo, uh, this is a great time to move on to Joe Rogan or somewhere else, like go someplace else. But today. Um, we're actually talking to the people who are serious and they're frustrated as hell. They're frustrated because they have with great sincere intent, tried so many times to make a massive move in their life and they haven't gotten the results they're looking for.

Dane: [02:17]
They're exhausted. They're frustrated. They're tempted to believe change really is impossible and to get cynical about it. And if you're in that spot and you're listening in today's conversation, um, you can't unhear it. Because once you hear it, it will be pervasive. It will come up in your mind over and over again.

Dane: [02:35]
You're putting yourself on the hook just by understanding the framework that helps solve where you're at in the change process. Because it turns out that change isn't just binary. It is binary. You're either doing or not doing a thing. But to get to that, that tipping point, that turn, there are stages.

Dane: [02:53]
And once you understand these stages, there's no going back.

Mitch: [02:56]
I think that is soo important. And so, so why don't we jump into it for those people that really, really do want change or maybe are like, I want to want to change. Yeah. Where do we start?

Dane: [03:07]
Yeah. Well, It's important to recognize that the moment you have an intention, you have a desire for something to go do it.

Dane: [03:16]
And you actually don't just have in your head, but you're willing to kind of connect the dots between the idea you have in your mind of, I want something new and I'm, I'm doing something that's doing something could be a declaration. The doing something could be signing up for something. The doing something could say, could be, uh, Turning to, like writing it on a piece of paper and scrunching it up and stuffing it in your pocket.

Dane: [03:38]
The point is simply that there's some connectivity between the, the, the desire you have in your heart and mind and some activity with your physical body. And I think this is a critical, necessary first step that most people think is the whole process. Like that's it. And, and it's tragic because it's, it's closer to like a rocket launching.

Dane: [04:04]
The rocket launching gets it off the ground, but it's not getting to space. Like you jettison those fuel tanks very quickly, uh, because light gravity is too heavy. It's not enough to get you through the atmosphere and into space and into the next stages. And you have to kind of see that. You're not, you're not going anywhere if you don't at least have that as a starting point, that you're committed to something, but don't expect that commitment to get you where you really want to go.

Dane: [04:33]
And this, I mean, this is a massive explainer as to why people have a New Year's resolution and then they quit three weeks in. Because they didn't get through the atmosphere, they didn't get through the hard bit. Uh, they, they just got off the ground. Getting off the ground, not bad. Don't be cynical at New Year's resolutions.

Dane: [04:53]
They're really resourceful. They're just not enough to get to change the transformation you're really seeking. So, we have a very, at Men and Women of Discomfort, we have a very specific kind of name for that, and it's called committing. Once you commit, that's what stage one is for. And, it feels so much like you've done something.

Dane: [05:15]
Like you've gone somewhere. And you have gone, I mean, you've done the hardest part is going from zero to one. You're moving, right? But you're not trying to get to one. You're trying to get to 10. So, or five, we'll call it, uh, so, and, uh, and, uh, the idea of, of getting off the ground is helpful so that you can get to the real starting line, which of course is stage two.

Mitch: [05:39]
Absolutely. And I'm sure as we, as we have this conversation. If you're watching or listening to this, I'm sure you'll identify moments of like, Oh, well, I made it to that stage that in that one attempt or, or that emphasized that, which I did completely yet completely negated or ignored these other things.

Dane: [06:00]
Let me just pause right there, Mitch, because I think you're, you're right on the money. Like everyone who's listening will be in the five stages of, of this framework for change that we have seen work over and over and over and over again. I promise you, once we name these things, you're going to see them in your own life.

Dane: [06:17]
And in some categories, you're going to be in stage 4 or 5. And you're like, I know how to do that. But, but you feel like a, a debilitating lack of capacity in some other category. You're like, why can't I get past stage 1 in that other category? Well, it's probably because, first of all, you don't even know the stages exist.

Dane: [06:35]
And once you do All of these, all the tells of what stage you're in, they give you your bearings, they act like a compass. And you can tell just by asking a couple key questions, uh, where you stand. And once you know where you're at, you'll know what the right next thing is to do. Because getting from stage 1 to stage 2, and from 2 to 3, 4, and 4 to 5, and actually 5 back to 3, and then to 1, and we'll get into all that in a minute.

Dane: [07:02]
Um, It's not as complicated as it sounds, and it's, it's a profoundly, uh, powerful resource to just, if you're frustrated, you're, you're sick and tired of where you're at, you say you want change to happen, and what you don't want to do is do the same thing you've done over and over again that's gotten the same results over and over again.

Dane: [07:22]
It's a great time to pause and ask yourself, which stage am I at? And it could be you're at commit, like, you know, new year, new you. You want to. A new, whatever, new relationship with desserts or booze or, uh, working out or your spouse or your daughter or whatever it is. It all, it all works. You're committing to something new.

Dane: [07:44]
You have a new intention and you want to take action with your body. Great. Now you're going to get to stage two, which is the real starting line. And um, we call that stage release.

Mitch: [07:59]
Absolutely.

Mitch: [08:00]
So commit.

Mitch: [08:01]
Release. And I just realized actually right now, I was like going to say, see, commit. And that's almost a little bit of it.

Mitch: [08:08]
It's like that initial, like seeing it's like you're, you're identifying you're sitting, but that's just it before you like actually get into the, the R which is the release, uh, that's kind of where a lot of the work really starts to happen. But I think it's important that you said. This not just helps orient yourself, but it also gives you the next natural step because a lot of people only know commit.

Mitch: [08:30]
And like you said, I, myself, many, many times in different categories in my life have thought that was it.

Dane: [08:37]
Yeah.

Mitch: [08:37]
Okay. I've committed and I've written it down. I've, Pinned it on the wall. I've written it on the mirror, gotten a tattoo, whatever people do, like they just, they go deeper in the commit and don't realize there's a next step.

Mitch: [08:50]
There's the next stage. Uh, so, so let's talk about in the spirit of not overcomplicating it, what does release look like?

Dane: [08:56]
Yeah. So let's talk with an example.

Dane: [08:58]
Last thing I mentioned was like, you want a new relationship with your daughter. Okay. So you decide you're going to have a, if you're a dude, you're going to have a daddy daughter date, triple D once a week, and you are committed and it just, You, maybe you came out of a sermon on Sunday and you felt convicted about your role as a father and not only in this society, but in this person's life and these dates are going to set a new trajectory for how your daughter's going to see men and, uh, how the partner they're going to pick and, and what you're going to model for them and, and the meaningful conversations you're going to have and how you're going to teach that your daughter chess and you're going to, uh, read books together and, uh, When your daughter is a valedictorian, before she gets her PhD in astrophysics, she'll be on stage at Harvard and she'll say, if it wasn't for my dad taking me to our daddy daughter dates, none of this would be true.

Dane: [09:54]
I wanted to make it dramatic. And, and, and no surprise, I have three daughters. So, so, let's just pretend for a second. So, um, if that's your intention, and what, the reason it was important to mention, like, the long dramatic story, I think, is because that piece of paper that you kind of wrote on and scribbled and stuffed in your pocket, your intention, The stuff you wrote on it would be the things like I just said, like you wanted an outcome, you wanted to see something new be so, and you're stating it out loud, and that's part of the commit stage, and it, I don't want to skip that part, it's important, um, it's, you know, as people run a marathon, they're like, I want to be a marathon runner, they want to, they want to, or they want to have a trophy that says they ran a marathon, or a medal, or whatever, um, you know, whatever the thing is, it's good to have that intention, it's good to have it written down and kind of clear in your mind.

Dane: [10:41]
But the release date, the reason we call that the real starting line is because even with all those great intentions, you'll have it on your docket to go take your daughter after school on a Thursday to go do the thing, or maybe before work or whatever, and you're going to get an email on Wednesday night, and it's from your boss, and, uh, and it's a, it's a fire drill.

Dane: [11:01]
It's a real thing, like, very, very important, and you're going to go through some, some, uh, Creative mental gymnastics, where you'll start to say things like, Well, if I don't have a job, I don't have a house, if I don't have a house, my daughter has no place to live. And if my daughter has no place to live, that's gotta be at least as important as this daddy daughter date.

Dane: [11:22]
And, and I'll, she knows I love her. She's integrated and understands my care and concern. And, and, you know, it's just one time. We'll, we'll start next week. You know, next week, new starting line. We'll, She barely understands what this thing is anyways. It's no big deal. And you see where you go, right? You rationalize your way to a totally reasonable answer that ultimately betrays your commitment.

Dane: [11:46]
And then you get frustrated because one week turns to two, two weeks to four. And it's like, Oh, well, next Christmas, I'll do that. Oh, she's only, you know, six it's it's when she's seven. That's what it's really going to kick. And we, we played this game and all of a sudden she's actually graduating from high school and you look back with deep regret.

Dane: [12:01]
So with that kind of picture painted. You have what's up in front of you is a preference, um, to prioritize something else, to renegotiate, to have an option, to do something else. And I'm, you know, I'm picking on this one example of the Daddy Daughter Day, but it could apply to any context. You're going to work out tomorrow morning.

Dane: [12:22]
You're going to, uh, get up and have a cold plunge. You're going to hold your breath. You're going to, um, tomorrow's the day you're going to intermittent fast. You're going to eat clean. Uh, fill in the blank. There will be a reason why you don't want to do it. And that reason is actually highly valuable. The circumstances, what we call the drift, that gets in the way, the drift of life, the whirlwind of being human, that gets in the way of all these great intentions that we have, they could be things that you're a victim to, or they could be your dance partner.

Dane: [12:55]
They could be the means by which you train yourself to become the person you say you want to be. And it's precisely in those moments when you either don't want to do the thing that you committed to or it feels like you can't because there's just too much in the way or there's no way out or you've run out of energy or juice or whatever it is and somehow, someway, you release on those preferences.

Dane: [13:19]
You wave the white flag of surrender. Come what may, I'm doing it anyways. Um, I'm going to stay up late, get the work I need to get done for my job, and I'm still having Breakfast with my daughter, no matter what I promise. Uh, and I do it anyways, knowing that life's going to be hard on the other side of that meeting, life's going to like, you're going to be paying a price.

Dane: [13:41]
It's going to be difficult for a minute and you do it anyways. And that release stage is, is so critical because it's the beginning of realizing that you can do hard things. To internalizing, to experience, to tell your body what to do as opposed to your body or circumstances telling you what to do. And you start taking more executive functioning, a more kind of higher order role.

Dane: [14:03]
You're the boss. This is your life. You got one shot at this thing. And if you say this is highest and best, then it's highest and best. And it becomes the, the, kind of the germ that is going to grow from a, from a habit into a routine. And ultimately to what we call, men and women of discomfort, a practice.

Dane: [14:25]
And .You build a life practice one little piece at a time, one, you know, James Clear's one atomic habit at a time, and you start building a life. And a life that is, you can depend on and it's structured and it holds ground when ground feels to be shaking underneath your feet. And stage two isn't the whole thing.

Dane: [14:47]
It's just, it just is that moment when you realize like. It's really hard to do the thing and I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it anyways. Um, and I do.

Dane: [14:56]
Mm

Mitch: [14:56]
hmm. And a great, kind of, thing to help you get your bearings, to feel, And identify what stage you're at is to listen to those moments of those mental gymnastics, to be aware of that negotiation that you're doing with yourself.

Mitch: [15:11]
And you're like, okay, I'm at this stage. It's, it's an opportunity.

Dane: [15:15]
I'm in stage two. You actually can't become the person you say you want to become without going through stage two. It is critical. It is necessary. It like, I can't overstate some people that go, Oh gosh, I'm just, I'm just checking the box.

Dane: [15:29]
I'm just doing the thing. Uh, you know, what's the point? I, you know, uh, I'm on a personal improvement plan at work, but I haven't missed a date with my daughter in four months. Well yeah, that's where you're at. And by the way, you're on the cusp of a third stage. And the third stage is actually where all the gold is, all of the gold.

Dane: [15:53]
And so much of this entire frame is how do you get to stage three and how do you keep coming back to stage three.

Dane: [16:01]
And

Dane: [16:01]
that notion, and we'll again, we'll talk about stage three in a second, but I just don't want to skip none of these. I think sometimes when any, any of us hear a framework, at least certainly for myself, I'm like, I just want to hear the golden part of it.

Dane: [16:13]
And how can I skip the other parts or get through them as quickly as possible and just get to the best part. And I can't overstate, um, this is a glorious spot where, uh, that old phrase that they say in the military, um, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Uh, here in CrossFit as well, um, slow down this framework and you're going to find you're going to get there much faster than you think.

Dane: [16:37]
Uh, there's a, there's an art and a skill that you're developing. Just like if you're playing the guitar or playing tennis, uh, if you don't skip the fundamentals and these are fundamentals, you will be shocked at how very, very quickly this framework becomes a, um, an undergirding for the whole of your life.

Dane: [16:56]
Any area that you want to see the change happen in.

Mitch: [17:00]
And it's not easy. Simple.

Dane: [17:02]
Yes.

Dane: [17:03]
Not complicated.

Mitch: [17:04]
Not easy.

Dane: [17:04]
Yes. And again, that's a tell, right? If it feels hard, that probably you want to wire your, wire your neurons in such a way where you're telling yourself I'm in the right spot, not the wrong spot. I need not be scared of this.

Dane: [17:17]
And this, this is a hard bit. I mean, there's a lot of people in the world who think like, if it's, if it's, if it's just too hard, then it's, I'm probably doing the wrong thing. And it's not quite when it comes to change, that's not quite the right rule. Um, it might be true with like a partner, you know, when you're dating.

Dane: [17:38]
Uh, but, but even then, like, let's say you're married and you're kind of getting after it and you want to see evolution in your marriage. Well. discomfort actually is probably a, a sign. And your commitment to seeing it through is probably a sign of health, not a sign of, of, uh, kind of erosion. And, and that's what you wanna avoid is stagnancy of being stuck in that Mm-Hmm.

Dane: [17:59]
in these early stages and not getting on

Mitch: [18:01]
Mm-Hmm.

Mitch: [18:02]
uh, a sign of health and something that begets health.

Dane: [18:05]
Yes. Yes. Well, review for us, like talk us through the first couple of stages

Mitch: [18:09]
So stage one commit, actually declaring it, making that commitment, the very, very first step, identifying it, making it embodied, whether that's writing it down, whether that's articulating in, in such a way that's helpful, right on your mirror, whatever you need to do, you're committing to it.

Mitch: [18:27]
Uh, but not just stopping there and not just white knuckling or going straight from committing to, to, uh, recommitting to recommitting to recommitting. Uh, but actually when you start to come up against that resistance, the drift, the, the very valid reasons why you shouldn't or can't do something in giant air quotes.

Mitch: [18:47]
Uh, it's an opportunity for release, which is stage two, releasing on your preferences.

Dane: [18:52]
Can I enter like, I'm going to, um, I'm going to search something. You said, uh, don't white knuckle it. And actually stage two is white knuckling it. It really is true.

Mitch: [19:03]
It's well, if we stuck with the C being like seeing something identifying, then the R would be the R, the grunt.

Mitch: [19:12]
I suppose. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But it's an opportunity to release. Um, and like we were saying, this is like when it really starts, this is the start line. Yeah. Um,

Dane: [19:24]
yeah, I, I, I keep the metaphor. I think about all the time on release is just, we are waving the white flag. You're surrendering. You're like, I'm. Uh, I give in, I'm doing it and we'll figure it out.

Dane: [19:37]
Uh, that it's a line from Les Mis, but come what may, uh, come what may, burn the boats. We're in, this is what we're doing. We will find a way from that point. Once we get there.

Mitch: [19:48]
Right. And how, how different is that from the, the other white flag waving or the other releasing we do not the I'm waving the white flag and I'm going to do it anyway, but I'm waving the white flag.

Mitch: [20:00]
And I'm just going to not, I'm just going to not, I'm waving the white flag to, to my past self.

Dane: [20:05]
Yeah. It's, it's the, what you're waving the surrender to. Uh, and I think you're surrendering to your future self. You're, you're surrendering. You had back in the commit stage, you had an idea of what your future self would want you to be doing today to set yourself up for becoming that person.

Dane: [20:23]
And to become that person, um, Your current self is not very trustworthy and we know this, right? Like anyone listening, just look back historically when you knew you were a knucklehead in retrospect. When you were a knucklehead, you didn't know. You didn't know. And now you know in retrospect. So we know present self is not nearly as smart as future self.

Dane: [20:46]
And you want to set that future self up. For highest and best. Uh, when I think about my life in the eighties, the nineties, uh, the 2000, uh, and we can go on the tens, the twenties now, and I'm so excited for the thirties, like, uh, those are going to be good days when I'll have a clue. I hope. Um, but it, it away from my silly self deprecation, the more important conversation is to go, I'm S I'm surrendering to the.

Dane: [21:15]
Either the intention I made as a, as a committed person, or the future state I say I want to be, which is embedded in that what you wrote in that scribbled up note. Um, and, and as you wave your, your flag to that, you stand vigilant, actually, for the commitment you've made. You do the thing. And then, and then you discover.

Dane: [21:37]
Even if it's a glorious failure, you discover. You learn from it. You just, I heard this great line, uh, last night I was reading this article. Um, I have a buddy of mine who ran a 250 mile, uh, foot race and wrote this incredible article about it. It, it took him, he got it done in 97 hours, um, sleeping in 15 minute increments over four and a half days.

Dane: [21:59]
And uh, just an amazing dude, he's 56, I think when he did it and he doesn't have a colon. Oh my gosh. So which forces dehydration and heat and it was just amazing. But he was talking about failure and he was specifically talking about how, his name is Dave O'Dell, and he was talking specifically about how he, uh, he's okay to fail.

Dane: [22:22]
He just doesn't want to fail for the wrong reasons.

Mitch: [22:25]
Hmm.

Dane: [22:26]
If you fail for the right reasons and you extract the learning, that's called a good day. Hmm. But to, to fail just cause. You betray yourself or you give up on yourself. Ah, those are, those are tough. So yes, we, uh, white knuckle it all our way, all our way to the most important moment, which is stage three.

Dane: [22:50]
Yep.

Mitch: [22:50]
The pinch point embrace.

Dane: [22:52]
Yeah. Embrace. So we have commit, we have release and we have embrace and the pinch point. The reason Mitch says that is. Embrace, picture like hugging, the act of hugging, you're creating compression, right? Uh, or you have, if you have a belt and you're cinching the belt, you're creating compression.

Dane: [23:09]
And it's, in a sense, it's kind of pulling all the variables in tighter. It's creating tension. And that tension or compression is exactly what is required for the transformation, for the change to happen. You've done all of this labor. To get to this moment where the, when, when the compression happens, that's when you're actually becoming someone new.

Dane: [23:35]
You're not just doing a new thing, you've actually been doing the same thing up in stage two when you were releasing. But now, instead of, instead of just like, checking the box or doing the thing because you said you were going to do and honoring your future self and not betraying yourself, now you've actually kind of forgotten all that and you're exclusively focused on the task at hand and you are.

Dane: [23:56]
giving it the biggest compression hug you possibly can bear in our world. And I've heard it described in other places. I think Brene Brown talks about this, this idea. Um, but I know she didn't invent it. It's been talked about a lot of different places, but we hug the cactus. We hug the cactus, which sounds so counterintuitive.

Dane: [24:18]
And if it was stage one, we would never do it, but we've been warming our way up to this, right? We committed, we wrote it down. Uh, we told somebody, we, we put ourselves on the hook somehow. We got into it. We didn't want to do it anymore. We did it anyways. We did it anyways, and we did it anyways, and we did it anyways, and we finally got tired of doing it anyways and decided, well, what if we just did it?

Dane: [24:40]
What if we were wholehearted? What if we gave ourselves hook, line, and sinker to this thing? And even if it kills us, I'm in. I am just going to hug this thing for all it's worth. and see if it doesn't create something new. Cause there, it's so weird. There's a sense in which for you to become a new self, your old self does have to die.

Dane: [25:04]
It has to die. Uh, it's the story as old as time. Like the truth is to, for new life to show up, old life has to pass. And um, of course we're not speaking to a physical, like you're not disappearing from reality. You're actually Resurrecting, you're transforming into a new being and it can't happen without wholeheartedness.

Dane: [25:29]
It can't happen without embrace of the thing. Um, where it becomes the immovable object in your life, where it is defined. It's what people talk about you when you're not around. It's what you're famous for. It's, it's who you become. It's your character. This is, you know, what that person do. They do this, you know, they, Here's another example, Stephen.

Dane: [25:50]
and you have coffee, or, not coffee, it would be inappropriate for a seven year old, but they have breakfast with their daughter every Thursday. And everything else revolves around that. And, in time at the beginning, people might say, That's crazy. In time, it's when people hold up in high esteem, and say, Oh, yeah, that woman stood for something.

Dane: [26:08]
That man stood for something. And, in that standing, you're creating that compression, and you're actually changing and becoming someone new in a very particular lane. It doesn't, like one compression in one area doesn't change the whole of your life. It changes the area that's being compressed. And what it reveals is there's other areas that there isn't much compression in.

Dane: [26:32]
And this is the gold. It's kind of like the metaphor I like to think about all the time is, um, uh, if, if someone decides they're going to, they have an older house and they're going to remodel, they're And they have a little budget. And they're like, Oh, I'm going to do the bathroom. The bathroom on the grid.

Dane: [26:48]
And we know where I'm going with this, right? You do the bathroom. And the bathroom looks incredible until you look at the kitchen. And then you're like, Well, how can we have that bathroom with this kitchen? And guess what's next? The kitchen. And then guess what's next? The bedroom. And then guess what's next?

Dane: [27:03]
The living room. And then guess what's next? A second bathroom. And guess what's next? Let's just sell the house and get a new house. Yup. And off you go, right? And, and um, that's good news. It's getting that dissatisfaction that you begin to see that you have eyes to see you start to And on the heels of the embrace You start to define.

Dane: [27:25]
Well, where else could this? Compression change my life. Where else could this embrace? Change my life and you start going well, I You know, I hang out with my daughter. Maybe I want to hang out with my wife or uh, or I go to crossfit, but what if I were to work out in the kitchen? and get my nutrition in order or maybe I, you know, fill in the blank, but you start seeing these other things and we, and this is the fourth stage is you start defining, well, where else?

Dane: [27:55]
And, and the change that you start seeing, you're going to be affirmed for it. You're going to feel good about it, but this is all a very humbling process. You're going to get humility as a bonus going through change because you're going to realize, oh, great. I changed this little thing, but then there's all these other things that haven't changed yet.

Dane: [28:10]
That I have only so many years left in this earth. I want to change all of them. I want to get to them. I want to get to as many as I can. Um, not to kind of stand on a hill and hold up a trophy, but because that's my legacy, that's the impact I can have on others. That's, it's the, the vehicle by which I create my capacity to love even others is my ability to kind of look for those gaps and fill them with that compression that creates change in the direction that we say is good and right and true and beautiful.

Mitch: [28:40]
Yeah, well, I mean, using that to expand on your remodeling metaphor to not only does the transformed new, bright and shiny modern bathroom kind of make the rest of the house that is less updated a lot Kind of more apparent, but also sometimes when you rip up that floor, you realize, wow, there's some rot here.

Mitch: [29:00]
There's some damage. So it's not only the proactive aspirational, yes, like kind of impetus or catalyst for change, but it's also the, it's going to reveal some really hard gaps and truths that you haven't been aware of and awake to. So it's kind of that two pronged approach that leads into that better defining.

Dane: [29:21]
One of my favorite things we do at Men and Women of Discomfort is we do, um, you know, a lot of places do before and after pictures where they take pictures of, you know, your physical body and which is a fun like van of the exercise and you know, like you look good, you look good. It's really fun. But um, what's more fun is when you take pictures under the hood, you start taking pictures of your bone density, uh, not just your percent body fat, but your visceral fat, the fat around your organs and, or you start realizing that.

Dane: [29:50]
Gosh, your lean muscle mass is really outta balance. Like one side is stronger than the other, or you're carrying weight in really unique spots in your body, , that aren't immediately evident. And, uh, to your point, we, the, you know, this is all done through what we call it, it's, we don't call, it's called a DEXA scan.

Dane: [30:07]
And, uh, we have people do a DEXA scan on the front end of their round and the back end of the round, uh, and a round is over three months. So at the front end they discovered, gosh. Bad news. It's that rot under the carpet. And what's amazing is how quickly commit, release, embrace in very clearly articulated and defined areas Create such dramatic transformation because on the other side of those just short window of time they see massive Transformation.

Dane: [30:39]
It's objectively true. This isn't woo. Woo like chat on a podcast. This is like people getting off of meds, uh, like med techs turning and saying, what did you do? I need to tell this to my mother in law. Uh, like these people who are, or, or rather I want to do it. Or, um, people saying like, Oh, because of the visceral fat that's decreased from a three to a 0.

Dane: [31:04]
5 on your chart, you might gain another decade of life because now your organs are going to be less. Like, if you're just tired and fatigued by all of the, kind of, effort it has to kind of, to work its efforts, uh, it has to carry that load of fat around it. And that's probably going to increase if you're not doing some kind of intervention like you clearly have done.

Dane: [31:21]
And, wow. And, oh, by the way, you don't need to be on hypertension medication anymore because your blood pressure is low. And, and it's these kinds of impacts where people go well, this isn't just a, a fun little challenge. This is actually opening up things and You also find out at the end of, you know, 90 days, like there's still room.

Dane: [31:44]
There's lots of places to improve and to grow while you can. Bone density is one of my favorite ones to talk about, especially for women, uh, because all the data around, uh, the erosion of bone density over time, it just, it led, it leads to such dramatically bad outcomes. Um, you know, people, a lot of women and men too, but a lot of women don't die because of they go to the doctor and get bad news.

Dane: [32:10]
They fall and they break their hip and they have a stroke. And you know, and it's all these, if they just done a little work way in advance of it, uh, or even if they're in the midst of it, how quickly they can turn things, it's, it's amazing the impact. So long winded set of examples to say like looking under the rug to see what the state of the wood is a great starting point.

Dane: [32:32]
And it's also a great, um, on the heels of these interventions to look and say, where am I at now, current reality, and how can that set a new trajectory, the things I want to define moving forward.

Mitch: [32:43]
Yeah. So what does the second half or divide this to divide this into two sections kind of segmented or bifurcated by embrace?

Mitch: [32:51]
Like, what's the first step of defining which is the next stage? Like, how do we begin to do that?

Dane: [32:57]
Yeah, so we have commit, we have release, we have embrace, you guys can hear it spelling some kind of magical word, but, uh, commit, release, embrace, define, uh, for me, the exercise is really one of just auditing your life, serving your life across the board.

Dane: [33:12]
The foundations of things like sleep, like if you think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like just the physicality of life, you know, sleep, hydration, food, like the quality of what you're eating, when you're eating it, um, what kind of strain are you putting in your body. Is it all aerobic? Is it all strength conditioning?

Dane: [33:30]
Uh, is there any mobility and, um, stability work being done in your anaerobic work? Is it, um, just sprints or is there any kind of that mid range effort to, to really get your heart going in a long, kind of a sustained way? All these efforts are foundational, but then you can go further. What about your relationship with money, uh, debt, uh, savings, giving?

Dane: [33:55]
Investing. What about, um, relationships, like toxic relationships in your life? Are, are you serving what ought not be there anymore? Uh, and what about if they were removed, what kind of space would that create for more life giving relationships that you'd want to install? Uh, maybe you have a faith tradition that used to be really important to you, but it's not very well practiced lately.

Dane: [34:16]
And you know that this would be one of the most life giving things that you could give to yourself, not just for this life, but for ever, depending on your tradition and beliefs and reality, um, that it's worth paying attention to. Uh, you could go even further to, you know, family relationships, romantic relationships, uh, uh, friends, um, uh, just freedoms.

Dane: [34:42]
Yeah. Like in every area, the teams you work with, like, so it's just an audit. You just look comprehensively across your life and you start to ask yourself. And, and I love to do this four times a year, every quarter. What's current reality in all these areas? And we do this every round with MWOD. And, and what, and then of course the natural next step is, is, it's kind of another version of commit, but you own it.

Dane: [35:05]
You already know the drill of how this works. You commit to it. You own it. And in the owning, it zaps you right to, in some cases, you know how to get to the embrace right away. But in most cases, you get to commit again. And then you go through the hard bit where you don't want to do it. You do it anyways, and you get back to the embrace and the cycle of commit, release, embrace, define, own, embrace, commit, release, embrace, define, own, commit, release, and so on.

Dane: [35:31]
It becomes an infinity loop. We like to think of it as a, of a hourglass. So if you picture an hourglass with five points on it, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, the compressions in the middle and just turn it on its side and it's an infinity loop. And this is why this framework for change. It's a never ending exercise in transformation.

Dane: [35:49]
And why I feel so fortunate that we've discovered it, and we practice it as a community, we don't do it alone, and we get to do this for the rest of our life in a sustainable, incredibly life giving way, that is having a daily, Like transformational impact on my life. I feel like we found a secret to life that's been around forever as long as humans have been around, but not many of us go back to those wise sages and read them and do what they tell us to do.

Dane: [36:22]
So regardless of whether you go read that stuff, if you're a part of men, men and women of discomfort, you're going to be practicing the very things that they've been talking about for, for millennia.

Mitch: [36:33]
Yeah. And as you kind of survey these, it strikes me how similar a lot of the stages are, you know, you might conflate, commit and define or maybe embrace and own.

Mitch: [36:45]
And I think the reason that there, there's so much overlap is because it is progressive. Like you do, it is necessary to go through each of the steps cause they build on each other and they inform each other. So if you're like Dane or, or me and you have a tendency to want to jump To the good stuff. Just give me the ending of this book.

Mitch: [37:07]
Just give me the good part of this video, etc It's hard work. And this is what hard feels like as Alex Hermosi likes to say like This is part of the change and this is also why so many people don't experience change Even if they feel that they want to that's right Uh, so I want to just spend a little bit more time on own, unless you have want to interject.

Dane: [37:30]
Well, I want to interject just because I, one way, I think if you think of the, the commit and release relative to the define and own again, the point is to get to the embrace embraces where all the change happens. That's where the cinches. And I actually like to think of commit and release as micro. And for a lot of people, that's where we start.

Dane: [37:50]
We start with the micro. We go, I'm going to, um, I'm going to commit to eat vegetables every day and I'm going to release when I don't feel like it. And then I'm going to embrace salads every day, no matter what, you know, but then you start to go, well, on a macro level, well, where else could this show up in my life?

Dane: [38:08]
And you start defining and a kind of very zoomed out way, like all the different kinds of categories. And then you start getting more. Like theoretical and you go, okay, well, what would owning it look like in each of those categories? I'm going to make a pretty broad list But if you were to try to take on that whole list at one moment You're going to fail.

Dane: [38:26]
It's too much. It's not going to work

Dane: [38:28]
Which is why getting to the micro As quickly as possible and in a sense you kind of I guess it you get maybe it's better to go from Own all the way around to commit or something, but it doesn't fit our picture perfectly But you're the point is to get to the stage one again You go from having a capacity to do something To deciding I want to get a new capacity in a new category and you're going to get bad at it for a minute in a micro way in a very narrow way And I think that's it's helpful to realize that because that way you're not expecting Comprehensive change in 90 days, although you can you can do a pretty significant leveling up in 90 days But imagine doing this over nine years Instead of 90 days and just patiently, persistently, not in a rush, you know, slow, as smooth, smooth, as fast kind of way.

Dane: [39:24]
And all of a sudden you wake up and you're like, I can't believe my life. I can't believe this is how I do life. And at the beginning, people are thinking, we'll think you're a freak. It's a good sign, but in time though, you're going to become. an inspiration to people because you're doing the rare thing.

Dane: [39:48]
You're, you're the one who stood up and said, I'm going to be that kind of person and I'm going to trust a process that's proven and I'm going to do it in community and just see what happens. And the reason the macro micro I think is very helpful is we don't ask people to commit forever to men and women of discovery.

Dane: [40:04]
Just commit one round, just give it a try. And what we find is at the end of that round, people stick around for another round and another round. And another round and they're smart to do it because the rounds, the, that's when you're really building the value of the asset over time.

Mitch: [40:21]
Yeah. And it's that infinity loop.

Mitch: [40:23]
Yes. There's even more, not just depth, but breadth that you can cover from subsequent rounds and, and really leaning into this. Um,

Dane: [40:33]
yeah, I think when we post this, we need to make sure to show the, uh, the credo compass. hourglass. Yeah. I think that will be helpful. Like, it's one of the reasons why I like keeping an hourglass around so, so many places in my life.

Dane: [40:48]
Go like, where, where am I again? Maybe that would be a helpful thing to chat about very quickly, like,

Mitch: [40:52]
Yeah.

Dane: [40:54]
If you find yourself with a great idea to go do something and you haven't done it yet, you're probably a commit. Or maybe define, who knows? Um, and if you find you're in the middle of something that you say you want to do and you don't want to do it, I guarantee you, you're in release.

Dane: [41:10]
If you're in those magical moments where you lose all sense of time and space, because you're just committing to the thing wholehearted, there's nothing else going on in the whole world. It's flow state that's embrace. That's what that looks like. And, uh, and when you start. Expanding your vision of like, well, gosh, there's, I'm going to start building a list that I could start knocking out over the course of months and years.

Dane: [41:37]
That's defined. And then owning is getting concrete material around how you want to build, build those places out.

Mitch: [41:44]
And the cool thing is the more reps you do, the better, the better to kind of rewrite, uh, those moments, uh, the more tools that you have to, to negotiate with when you're in those moments of release, uh, you've got evidence and, and proof that you can do this, whether in other categories or this one itself.

Mitch: [42:10]
So it's so, so important.

Mitch: [42:13]
Are there any other things that you want to leave our viewers and listeners with? As they start to kind of audit their life and kind of take a step back and help orient themselves with this kind of credo compass.

Dane: [42:26]
Yeah. I think if there is, if people are hearing for this for the very first time, I think what I would hope for them the most is, is to, to be where they're at today and remind themselves that it's good that they're at the commit stage.

Dane: [42:41]
It's good. And, and, uh, to not be cynical, to resist that temptation in a sense, release on that and, and just try to find the, the, the, the most minimal viable commitment you can find in your life right now and do it. And if you can do that in community, which is why we, we, we really encourage people like we are actively doing this every single day, 365 days a year.

Dane: [43:09]
At men and women of discomfort. There's no reason why you shouldn't jump in with us in this next quarter. There's just not go to men of discomfort. com or women of discomfort. com or MWOD. io. They all go to the same place and fill out the application. Even if all you do is answer the questions, read about credo, steal the ideas and apply it in your context, help people in your line of work leverage this framework for change, because it works in every context that there is.

Dane: [43:34]
It's part of the human condition. And as, as you become a master at this stuff, at the understanding and actually, more importantly, a practitioner, uh, of the stuff, um, it's, it all still begins with committing and, and just have a next place to go when it gets hard, because that's, that's usually the linchpin spot is your job at the beginning is to get to stage one and then your job is to get to stage two and then your job is to get to stage three and then the rest of your life is to get back to stage three somehow with every category that you have in your life so that's my invitation and whether it be you know comments under this video or you know jumping on to askdane.

Dane: [44:20]
com and asking questions or you know finding a means to um, Persist with this conversation somehow, some way in your world and not just have this be an idea, but something you take action with, I think everyone who does that will be really glad they did much sooner than they think.

Mitch: [44:37]
Like Dane said, take embodied action. release today, just listening to this, just watching this is not going to make the change that you want.

Mitch: [44:48]
Uh, so whether that starts with going into the episode show notes, uh, to get some of these links, go ahead and do that.

Mitch: [44:54]
But if anything, just put yourself on the hook, start this process and you won't regret it. Well, on that note.

Mitch: [45:02]
We'll see you in the next episode.

Dane: [45:04]
Men and women of discomfort is our membership community and we are open to everyone but keep in mind our tagline is it's probably not for you if we're wrong about that or if you want to find out for yourself you can find us at mwod.io the information and material that we're sharing both of this podcast or anything connected to men or women of discomfort or flying s incorporated it's all for general information purposes only you should not rely on this material or information on this podcast as a basis for making any kind of decision.

Dane: [45:29]
We do our best to keep everything up to date and correct, and we do a lot of due diligence, but the responsibility is on you to make sure that you're in sync with your own medical professionals that you wouldn't see what we're offering here as somehow a warranty or representation in any kind expressed or implied about this being complete, accurate, reliable, suitable, or comprehensive in any kind of way.

Dane: [45:43]
It's critical you own your agency, which is at the heart of everything we do of Discomfort. We invite you to take the input that we're offering and consider it for yourself. And if it's helpful, please do take advantage of it. But if you do, it's you who is taking the opportunity and we're assuming that you've done your due diligence with it.

Dane: [45:54]
Thanks.