Feelings pt. 2 | A Practiced Response | Ep. 15

Dane: [00:00]
The problem with routines is they're fragile.

Dane: [00:02]
So if you want to go beyond the routine, you build a practice.

Dane: [00:05]
Here's the punchline: when you have an active practice, it doesn't get rid of flight or fight responses . I thought if I just practiced enough, I just wouldn't get triggered anymore. That's actually not how it works as a human. There's something deeply wired in us, and it's good that we have these triggers because there are moments where you're glad you're ready for what's in front of you. But because we can be so easily deceived, what a practice does is it helps us wake up quicker.

Dane: [00:37]
As humans we prefer the path of least resistance. We crave convenience, the payoff without the price. But when our lives revolve around comfort, it doesn't deliver. Living in perpetual comfort leaves us weak and asleep. This podcast is an invitation to flip that script, to choose the unlikely path, to get the life you really want through voluntary discomfort.

Dane: [01:02]
This is Strong & Awake. I'm Dane Sanders.

Mitch: [01:06]
So Dane, we're coming off the heels of our last episode and what people might have heard us say is that, feelings aren't trustworthy, which is, which is true. But what they might have also heard is that we're anti feelings in some way. We want to make sure that they're, they're suppressed. That that we, we ignore those and just do hard things.

Mitch: [01:24]
And I thought it was appropriate. And you and I talked about it before this episode. That we would add a little bit more nuance, maybe redeem feelings instead of just viewing it in this black and white, like, how can we actually leverage feelings as kind of cues or prompts to actually move towards the thing that we really want to do now?

Dane: [01:43]
All my, all my therapist friends are, are mad and I don't blame them. I mean, I think it's a really important question. You know, humans, we have thoughts, we have feelings, they're not bad.

Dane: [01:55]
they're not good. they are here. They are. I have them all the time. And as things are occurring to me, whether in thought or feeling really this is an exercise last episode.

Dane: [02:06]
And this episode is an exercise in putting things in their proper place, making sure that we have a growing understanding of how these things work and how they affect our everyday life. So I think this is important and, and really nuance is critical. You can only go so far in any one conversation and we're giving a take on it.

Dane: [02:26]
But to be clear, we're big feeling fans. Feelings are great. They just tend not to be great at leading us. That's kind of a synopsis. Last time, unless, unless. We relate with them in a particular kind of way. And I think we should start with although this is increasingly dated an important metaphor, which is George Costanza.

Dane: [02:49]
So George Costanza for folks who don't remember was a character on Seinfeld. This, one of the most popular TV shows of all time. And one of the things that George was famous for was when he got a job in the New York Yankees kind of a mid level manager role he found great success in this organization rising the ranks.

Dane: [03:10]
And the way he found success was whenever it occurred to him to do one thing, he would do the exact opposite. Opposite and it was hilarious. I mean serious comedy. Fantastic. It's worth Checking out the syndication or going on youtube or wherever you find your Seinfeld the george kastan is a model of decision making will get you pretty far in life, especially as it relates to our feelings And and this is so tough right because there's some folks that are wired Where their intuition is very strong and often very accurate around things.

Dane: [03:43]
So they kind of feel their way forward versus thinking their way forward. That's a different kind of nuance than what we're talking about right now. What we're talking about is when you in the midst of the drift of life and the whirlwind of being human circumstances you can't control, you're tempted towards the comfortable thing.

Dane: [04:01]
That is a very hardwired human reality. It's a survival, it's flight, fight, freeze. There's so many different Fs that you could choose in response to things happening to you. And that is primarily an emotion that you're experiencing. And that emotion, if you just follow it, you'll pick the easy way out.

Dane: [04:20]
You'll take yourself off the hook. You'll choose the comfortable route. And what we're saying is take a nod from George Costanza and And do something different with it. Don't just follow the comfort, choose the easy route. We're going to invite you to, to walk through a process where you can actually leverage the feeling that the thing that you're in, the surge that you're in, the hyp, hypothalamus hijack.

Dane: [04:47]
And when that's happening we're, we're going to suggest a couple of ways to relate with it such that you can benefit from the feeling and leverage it, but not be led by it.

Mitch: [04:56]
I like that George Costanza analogy because I think some people can fall into the suppressing of feelings. Some people can fall into that where it's just, well, I'll just do the opposite. But I do think it requires more nuance than either of those paths. It's like, how do we actually like kind of rightly order these feelings?

Mitch: [05:15]
Still consider them. still use them as almost like kind of a guide or bumpers to kind of keep us on a certain path. So we have these hardwired responses, these reactions, if you will, the lizard brain, the, the, the hijack that you talked about. But what Those serve a purpose still. We're not saying even suppress those.

Mitch: [05:35]
So what do we do? Like when we're first met with that feeling in a situation, because I can think of a couple different steps that we can take, but I think the first one would probably be digging in for clarity. Yeah.

Dane: [05:48]
Yeah. First of all, most people, when they are getting hijacked, they're up against the resistance, but they don't know it.

Dane: [05:53]
They're asleep. And when that's happened, this happens all the time. Like Anyone who is in a

Dane: [05:58]
partner relationship, marriage relationship, whatever, they can all relate to this, right? We all have moments where you're in an argument with your, let's talk about myself. I'm in an argument with my wife and I'm doing some version of, I'm not angry.

Dane: [06:10]
Like I don't know that I'm angry. And I'm expressing myself in such a way that it's very clear to the person I'm with that I'm angry, but I'm unclear about it. I'm just deceived and it is ruling me. It is running the ship and it is these, this, this defensive posture, this feeling of I'm in trouble.

Dane: [06:32]
And if I don't respond in this way, I'm going to, I'm going to, it's going to get worse. So it seems like and this is well, you know, studied and psychological circles. When we get into that defensive state, it does serve a purpose when we're actually in trouble. Right, so if all of a sudden someone is actually going to attack me, I need to get in a defensive posture and fight back if I want to get there or run away or, you know, whatever the thing is that is needed for the moment, the problem is that happens so rarely, like we're not up against and, you know, Seth Godin talks about this all the time, like the saber tooth tiger isn't around much anymore.

Dane: [07:13]
So we're not quite running for the hills quite as much, but our physiology is telling us it's like that and we don't necessarily know. So I do think the first step is to be aware that something is happening. That I'm having this response. And if you feel like for example, that you're angry, if you're a fighter, as opposed to a flighter which probably I am, if I'm honest then the, the fighter usually feels like they're justified.

Dane: [07:43]
Like, no, no, no. If I just yell louder, or if I just make my case more strongly, then you'll understand. And that. That's a cue. That's a clue, or at least it could be to go, wait a minute, I'm not in my normal state right now. I'm in a heightened state. Can I be aware of that first? So when I'm aware of it first, 1A, 1B, am I actually in trouble?

Dane: [08:09]
Ask the question. Am I actually in a moment that warrants flight, fight, freeze, whatever. And that, that doesn't take long. Just it can take a second. And if you're not take the bullet out of the gun. If you're a fighter. Stand when you feel like running, move your body. If you feel like freezing . But just get to a more present state reality that you're okay.

Dane: [08:34]
Everything's gonna be all right. Take a beat and lean toward the thing, which is step three. So get in motion to towards the thing that you're resisting. So step one. Wake up, step two, check, are you safe? And if you are, move toward the thing that you're resisting and what you'll discover, get in motion, and what you'll discover is resource, possibility.

Dane: [08:59]
You can open up what would normally close down in this kind of reactive state. Which happens all the time. I mean, divorces breaks in relationship, people going to jail, like there's real, like valuable resource in getting ahold of ourselves in these ways and having something that's a little bit higher order.

Dane: [09:21]
I'm going to be driving what we're going to do

Dane: [09:23]
hmm.

Mitch: [09:24]
So you've got these three steps. It feels like maybe the latter two can be done in that moment or like a decisive I'm doing this. Obviously the first one as well. But the first one of like being awake to it, being aware that this is actually going on.

Mitch: [09:40]
Yeah. I think also requires a lot of pre work or or other people around you that are willing that you've invited to give voice and speak and point those things out like you're saying about the being mad metaphor

Dane: [09:54]
or both.

Mitch: [09:55]
Yeah.

Dane: [09:56]
Right. So like at men and women of discomfort, we do a lot of work to build a personal practice and the folks who are new to the podcast, a personal practice basically is you have a, you have a handful of habits that stack into a routine.

Dane: [10:09]
And if you want to learn how to build a habit, go check out James clearing company once you have the habit in play. Or a handful of habits, stack them thoughtfully, you'll build a routine. And when you can control the variables, routines work fantastic at ordering your life, at doing some of the pre work you're describing.

Dane: [10:25]
The problem with routines though, is they're brittle, they're fragile. If one email that you get in the morning interrupts your pattern.

Dane: [10:34]
It's very difficult to get back to the routine because you didn't account for the time and effort to get kind of things in play. So you get to the end of your day, you're chasing your routine all day long.

Dane: [10:42]
It just doesn't work in certain contexts, but on certain days is amazing. Other days it just falls apart. So if you want to go beyond the routine, you build a practice. And this is what we talk about all the time. At Men and Women of discomfort. And we do together, we actually have a methodical process to not just build it in three months, but to build it over years and make it highly sustainable.

Dane: [11:02]
It is the pre work you're describing. So here's the punchline on this. When you have an active practice, it doesn't get rid. Of flight or fight responses, that's what I thought would happen when we started down this road. I thought if I just practiced enough, I just wouldn't get triggered anymore. That's actually not how it works as a human.

Dane: [11:22]
There's something deeply wired in us, and it's good that we have these triggers in us. It's fantastic because there are moments once in a while. Where you're glad you're, you're ready for what's in front of you. But because we can be so easily deceived, what a practice does is it helps us wake up quicker.

Dane: [11:43]
We realize more quickly that we're undone and we can slow the train down because we've practiced it in other contexts with things like getting in cold water when we don't want to holding our breath when we don't want to. Or like holding our breath just a little longer or going to the workout or not giving into creamer in my coffee or whatever the thing is, right?

Dane: [12:04]
That, that we, we practice doing the thing that wakes us up, doing the thing that makes us stronger. And when those things come into play, we're in a much better position. To notice, to wake up quicker than we would and not extend unnecessarily down really destructive roads that can be very hurtful to the people we're with and hurtful to ourselves.

Dane: [12:28]
So that's the first step. The second, to your point, it's so much more helpful if you have someone who knows you, they, they don't have a dog in the fight. They, they see things, In a way that is a little bit more neutral and that word neutrality is very, very important. And I'll come back to that in just a second.

Dane: [12:47]
But when you have someone who, you know, we experienced this all the time, right? You come across someone, you see them parenting and you're like, gosh, really? That's how you're going to parent your kids. And, and I'm not talking about like pre having kids parenting advice, but like you've had kids and you've seen some things you're like, Oh, I don't think it's going to go very well.

Dane: [13:05]
Give it a decade. It's going to be tough. And You can see things very differently than when you're sleep deprived and it's you know It's your kids are sick again, and you know, you you decided you're gonna parent this one way but then the wheels come off and you're just like I just need to get through this moment somehow and we're not as we're not as neutral when we're in the midst of that kind of thing So it's that dynamic that I'm describing that if you have a friend who actually is interested in, you're interested in their input.

Dane: [13:35]
They can be very resourceful having community around you while you're working on your habits and your and your practice. Because the point is to get to a place where Instead of your feelings running, running you, your character runs your, your, so this is where like being neutral being curious being humble is so helpful in these heightened moments, but we don't go there by default.

Dane: [14:04]
We, by default, we go to I know what's going on and which is a little bit potentially arrogant or or. It's not neutral. It's entirely biased in the perspective that you have. You're scared and you're responding. You're reacting and you're not curious. You're just mad. In fact, you know, it's often been talked about how physiologically it's, it's impossible to be angry and curious.

Dane: [14:29]
at the same time.

Dane: [14:30]
It's like an antidote, but it's very difficult to get there very quickly unless you practiced or you don't have a buddy who's saying like Hey, just give me a minute. Take, take a breath. It might be more going on here than you think. Would you like to know about it? That kind of thing.

Mitch: [14:45]
Yeah. And I think going through these, you know, it's not just a one time thing. Like once you get the reps, And kind of where those new grooves or car those new pathways, neural pathways, like it becomes maybe not easier and easier, but like a little bit more familiar and and associating with yourself with people.

Mitch: [15:04]
Yeah, sure. It'd be nice if you just had. You know, someone in tow to point out all of your, your moments. But honestly, I find it really resourceful just being around these people. Like I can channel their voices like I can. Well, what would they say? Oftentimes when, when, you know, I'm talking to my wife and, you know, she might be, you know, going through something with work or something, you know, she's a brilliant and such a good teacher and coach.

Mitch: [15:29]
Oftentimes I'll just ask her like, what advice would you give to a friend that was going through the same situation? And. Usually, you know, not all the time, but she can be a little bit more objective, even with herself, channeling it through someone else.

Dane: [15:43]
There's just a little space.

Dane: [15:45]
You don't need a lot, but you just need a smidge. And, and it's in micro moments. That's what's amazing to me. Like, I can't imagine the countless lives that have been lost. Over centuries of little second moments where people just react you know, lives destroyed, just something said you know, there's our, our shared faith tradition talks about the tongue and how the tongue can build up.

Dane: [16:08]
It can destroy people. Just a phrase, even as I'm saying this, I'm confident there's people who are listening to the podcast or like. Oh, that was me, like I was undone. And I said things that I regret. And what we're suggesting is, in that micro moment, that Split second, there's an opportunity if you can get a hold of yourself, if you can notice, if you can wake up to what you're in the And as you, as you begin to get a clue, like, I'm not sure if this is a moment, but it might be. Okay. Stick with that. Then just say, am I safe? And then if you are great, that's like literally maybe a second and a half, get to a place of motion towards the uncomfortable thing. Which might be like listening might be like asking a question might be might be like if there were even if you just ask yourself if there was more to know in this moment that I'm convinced I know.

Dane: [17:01]
What I want to know about, and if there is, I have a hunch some magic will open up for you, but that performance that I'm describing happens because you practice before the performance. You practice before the heat.

Mitch: [17:15]
Yeah. So what are some other kind of practical things that we could be asking ourselves in those moments? Or once we've recognized, okay, this isn't something that's life threatening.

Mitch: [17:25]
This isn't something that I need to respond to in that kind of visceral way. What's some more digging? Because we talked a little bit. Before we hit record about like, is this what's behind it? Is it insecurity? Is it pride? Is it Eric? Do I feel threatened? I think exploring those kinds of things does help us kind of train those pathways and, and get curious with ourselves.

Mitch: [17:45]
Like you're saying,

Dane: [17:46]
I'll say, I'll say this in my relationship with my wife, Tammy, she's been, she's gone from the enemy to an ally in this conversation. And the, I say the enemy because we would just fight, you know, it was just a. An arms like deal where it was like, you know, who could be more clever, who could pull the right tactical move of silence or zingers you know, whatever.

Dane: [18:11]
And what we're getting better at methodically is actually asking the other for help. So One way to have a buddy is to actually have the person that you're in a fight with be your buddy tax. So I'm having this feeling, let's remember that we're talking about feelings. We're redeeming feelings and having this feelings is a surge.

Dane: [18:30]
It's extraordinary and it's too much for you to get curious with yourself, but right next to you is somebody who. Like in my case with my wife, she bore four of my children. Like we've been together for three decades to suggest that she and I are not on the same team is ridiculous. And sometimes I believe that, like I literally in the surge believe she is the enemy and it's a lie.

Dane: [18:58]
And I, sometimes the best I can muster in those moments is like, like Tammy, I think I might be having a moment. And, it feels scary to say this out loud, but I don't think I see everything that I need to see right now. What am I not What am I not Like that's a very uncomfortable habit to cultivate because it feels so vulnerable.

Dane: [19:25]
It feels like I'm already having this reactive flight or fight or freeze moment. And I'm intentionally in motion now, trusting it, like giving trust to the, what seems like the enemy, but I'm trying to think of a time when I've ever gone there. And I didn't get like authentically gone there and I didn't get gold.

Dane: [19:46]
I didn't get like, you're right. There's more going on. Keep going, stay in motion. and, and I, I get to that she could be undone, right. And she could have her own fight. She's in the middle of with herself and there is a sense of vulnerability, but. Is it really like unsafe vulnerability? Not very often.

Dane: [20:09]
Not very often. Like, it's going to age well if you go humble. It's going to age well if you go curious. If you lead with, how am I part of the problem? Maybe I'm the whole problem right now. All those things are, you're having these feelings, and you're running in the direction of the very thing you don't want to do.

Dane: [20:31]
But the feeling was the cue. It was the clue. It was the, it's, you're looking for the right information to tell you what's going on in this moment and we can actually practice doing this and it can do it in everyday, like in non stressful, non interpersonal broken down moments. So my, for, for, this is my 24th round at MWOD.

Dane: [20:57]
So every three months, I've done this now for 24, three month runs in a row. And just recently, like one of the things I do every morning is I get in a cold shower and usually I turn it on cold, get as cold as I can and then I get in, but now I'm, I'm turning it on and getting in. And it sounds like a little thing, but I'm actually trying to shorten the time of like taking a breath and stretching and, okay, I'm going to do this and then get into it.

Dane: [21:24]
It's like, no, I'm just going to, I'm going to take it on the head like right now. And it's, it's amazing. Like it's such a micro, it's the same pain, it's the same discomfort, but I'm, I'm, I'm shortening the time. I'm, I'm running toward the thing, not just gurt, gurting my loins and getting under the cold water.

Dane: [21:46]
I'm seeing some nods. What are you thinking as I say all this?

Mitch: [21:49]
you bring up such a good point., You don't practice in the game, like you practice ahead of the game so that when you're in the game, like, you know, at least instinctually or have a much larger repertoire of things to draw from and resources.

Mitch: [22:04]
So, yeah, it sounds so silly. Whenever I talk to people about MOI, like our membership community and, and the, the folks of, you know, the group of crazies that, you know, practice these hard things together, people would be like, why? Yeah. Why do you do that? I'm like, why no spices? Why cold showers? You know, for certain windows of time, I mean, why cold showers?

Mitch: [22:24]
And you know, it's like, it's not for that thing itself. Like I can't tell you how many times I have to say that, like spices aren't bad. Warm water isn't bad. It's not. I'm just using these things to practice doing these other hard things, like in a controlled environment, a safe environment that feels safe.

Mitch: [22:44]
You know, bigger stakes than it really is so that I can when I'm in those moments that are higher stakes. That's when it really happens. And I think a lot of people can even go through what we call is our their future round, which is the first 3 months of kind of like more intense habits and things almost like a reset to, to, to start off the, the membership and the community people can go through that seeing these low stakes things as the goal.

Mitch: [23:14]
Like I just need to check these boxes and get through. And then it's only. You know, when they're outside of that and they're starting to cultivate their own practice, decide and declare and own their own

Dane: [23:26]
Agency.

Mitch: [23:26]
practices and habits and their agency that they realize, like, it's not, oh, it's not about that. And it's oftentimes a lot harder.

Mitch: [23:34]
I would love to, to, to talk about that, you know, like, okay, we're using it as a signal for the path to take, or at least as some kind of directive informing. Where we might head or explore, like what, what does that process look like? And I do want to talk a little bit about that. How going from zero to one is one thing, but then when it is a slog, when it's mundane, when it's

Mitch: [23:59]
repeating and not as sexy, what do we do?

Dane: [24:03]
I was in a conversation who was talking about And I can be this guy to be clear, but we all have one of these guys or women in our lives who it's every new thing is a new thing. It's so exciting. Like, Oh, I got a new thing. Oh, I got a new thing. I got a new thing. And my friend was lamenting.

Dane: [24:18]
Like, I kind of would love the same. This person in particular. To tell me about how he stuck with the old thing because he, he is the person he was describing is not actually progressing. What they're doing is they're repeating their first experience over and over and over again, and they're not staying with the thing long enough to get the things that can only come from staying with the thing long enough.

Dane: [24:42]
And again, this is a lesson I have, if you look at my career. Pivots I, I am this guy, right? And, and anyone of my friends who know me and listens, they're like, yeah, he's just talking about himself in this context. I was talking to somebody else. But what's interesting is you know, 24 times four or divided by four gets me to, what, six years or whatever.

Dane: [25:04]
Like, that's not. That's not starting anything over and over and over again. It's doing the same thing, Groundhog's Day, over and over And what I'm amazed by, is every round, I, like four times a year, I go through a process where I discover brand new things that was not available to me before, but it's not dramatic like it was at the beginning, you know, it's kind of like marriage, like compare like courting and falling in love versus seven years in.

Dane: [25:39]
Yeah, like seven year itch is there for a reason. It's because people are like, I want new, new, so exciting. And it is exciting, but you know, there's nothing like, like when you're a decade compared to a year, you kind of go, Oh, that's kind of cute. Like you're there 20 years compared to the early days. And you're like, yeah, we, we went through some things to get here and we, you can't buy longevity.

Dane: [26:07]
Like it's, it's way more value. And you don't often know it until you lose it. But everyone knows these are universals like now what I'm not talking about is, of course, you know, stick with the metaphor is I'm not even abusive relationships and I'll never, ever quit. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you can persist in a way that you're getting better at a thing, you should persist and get better at that thing because there's something remarkably good and valuable that can only come.

Dane: [26:38]
Over time. So I like to think about iteration. So to go from zero to one, to go from nothing to something is exciting and dramatic and it gets you going, it's fantastic. And then you're gonna have a, a season where you're gonna not go from one to two. You're gonna go from one to 1.1 and one to 0.1 to 1.2, and it won't feel as sexy.

Dane: [27:00]
But that's actually part of the discomfort that's actually critical to the process. Can you stick with it when it's mundane? When it's just another day and what you'll discover is it'll go really slow and then it'll go really fast And that's what's it's it's still you still have sexy moments where it all comes together But it it's it's a different kind of pacing and then you can actually settle into that and go Oh, this is just life.

Dane: [27:26]
This is actually, and it's not, it's an, it's an uncommon life. If you live like this, because you're actually developing an asset, the, if you think of a business, you know, balance sheet measures asset an income statement measures, you know, cash basically, and you, you don't just want cashflow, you want the thing to improve in value.

Dane: [27:49]
And that's our lives. So I do think recognizing the season you're in and certain seasons is going to be this massive uptick and others is going to be more steady growth. When it comes to developing a personal practice, it's critical, critical that you persist. If you want to become someone who, who never quits on themselves then you don't quit on yourself.

Dane: [28:11]
You one more day, one more day, one more day. And then you start to settle in and go, Oh, wait, I'm just living in a perpetual state of presence, which is actually life. Life isn't historic. Life isn't in the future. Life is now. And this developing a practice keeps us in the now, which is remarkably special.

Dane: [28:32]
But to come full circle to the, to today's conversation around feelings. Thoughts and feelings are radically important. We've been talking about thoughts mostly today, but as people are considering their own lives and they have these feeling flare moments that are just overwhelming, taking these incremental steps of noticing, am I safe and getting into motion towards the very thing that feels vulnerable, feels exposing that feels risky.

Dane: [29:03]
That's humble. That's you can still be honest, but do it in a way that is curious. Well, what'll happen is things will open up for you and that is your practice. You do that in advance of the moment and when you're in the moment, you just need buddies. And I think if there was one kind of takeaway from today that I would just suggest is if this feels too overwhelming to do on your own, and it would be for me if I heard it for the first time,

Dane: [29:32]
It doesn't take a lot to find one friend and ask them to One human doesn't have to be their friend.

Dane: [29:39]
Really. Actually. It's just somebody's willing to do it and they'll become your friend as you do it But who's who are you willing to have an intentional daily set of conversations with that? You're just in tune and this is why we built men and women of discomfort it's, it's why it's such like why my best friends are all part of M1.

Dane: [29:57]
It's because we suffer together and we're in tune with each other. We help each other and we expand what we can see that we get blind to, and we help interpret our feelings, feelings, legitimate interpretation. We sometimes get it really, really wrong. And these friends make a massive difference in our capacity to interpret it right, to read the cues and the clues so that we can be on task to become more true to who we were made to be.

Mitch: [30:24]
So if you're feeling, in response to this conversation, that fight, that flight, end the episode, skip, leave, I don't want to, la la la la, I don't want to hear any more of this, then maybe that's a cue, maybe that's a signal.

Dane: [30:38]
Let me just say this, I was going to end it there, but I wanted to say one more thing.

Dane: [30:40]
This is what we listen for all the time when people apply to become a host. Part of MWOD is we're not listening for like the rah rahs and they're excited and no we're listening for like I kind of want to Barf, like this sounds horrible I don't I don't want to do it But I think I would really benefit from it if that tells us they're right on cue That cause that's a normal set of feelings that they're moving.

Dane: [31:04]
Like it's exactly what we're describing. They're having the feeling and they're wondering for a second, wait, am I safe? If I were to do this? Yeah, you're safe. It's all transparent. You can see you can quit at any time. No problem. It's all in play. Even the application process. If you just go to mwa. io and fill out the application, if that's all you do, you don't intend on doing anything.

Dane: [31:20]
Just answer those questions. It'll be help you wake up to the situation you're in. When you go through that, then what you do is you get in motion towards the thing. Okay. And it feels really vulnerable.

Dane: [31:34]
Perfect.

Dane: [31:35]
You're so exactly where you need to be to methodically walk into a minimally viable practice with others who are trying to do the same thing who are on your team built in. Some of you might be saying, I don't have any friends. We'll join MWOD. You'll get friends instantly because there's something that's magical that happens when we do these kinds of things together.

Dane: [31:56]
And, and then we had the bonus of these people are around when our feelings deceive us.

Mitch: [32:03]
So to learn more about MWOD, check out the show notes, go to mwod. io. And we're looking forward to exploring this conversation, this topic, these real feelings and actions with you in our membership community.

Dane: [32:20]
Thanks, Mitch.

Mitch: [32:21]
Thanks, Dane.

\[: [00:32:22]
Dane: [32:22]
Men and women of discomfort is our membership community and we are open to everyone but keep in mind our tagline is it's probably not for you if we're wrong about that or if you want to find out for yourself you can find us at mwod.io the information and material that we're sharing both of this podcast or anything connected to men or women of discomfort or flying s incorporated it's all for general information purposes only Only you should not rely on this material or information on this podcast as a basis for making any kind of decision.

Dane: [32:47]
We do our best to keep everything up to date and correct, and we do a lot of due diligence, but the responsibility is on you to make sure that you're in sync with your own medical professionals that you wouldn't see what we're offering here as somehow a warranty or representation in any kind expressed or implied about this being complete, accurate, reliable, suitable, or comprehensive in any kind of way.

Dane: [33:01]
It's critical you own your agency, which is at the heart of everything we do at Men & Women Of Discomfort. We invite you to take the input that we're offering and consider it for yourself. And if it's helpful, please do take advantage of it. But if you do, it's you who is taking the opportunity and we're assuming that you've done your due diligence with it.

Dane: [33:13]
Thanks.