How to Make a Great Decision | Ep. 19

Dane 00:00

I think sometimes people get lost in a very generalized narrative of like, it's just hard. Well, what's hard? Like what in particular, or I'm stressed all the time. 

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Dane 00:09

Well, we'll name the stress. and what is the root of that?  

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Dane 00:11

 If you tried similar things in the past and it's failed over and over and over again, it might be that you think you're doing something new, but really what you're doing is you're just kind of metaphorically moving the furniture around on the deck of the Titanic. 

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Dane 00:23

When people want complete information, a no risk decision, which isn't available, they can stay in paralysis for years, and it's so unnecessary. I would rather people make the wrong decision, make the wrong bet, find out you didn't get what you're looking for, and then make another decision that's new. 

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Dane 00:40

That will get you to where you want to go faster than staying in a place that you know won't deliver or being so afraid of making the jump. That you settle for despair and I think this is the gift, 

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Dane 00:54

As humans we prefer the path of least resistance. We crave convenience, the payoff without the price. But when our lives revolve around comfort, it doesn't deliver. Living in perpetual comfort leaves us weak and asleep. This podcast is an invitation to flip that script, to choose the unlikely path, to get the life you really want through voluntary discomfort. 

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Dane 01:18

This is Strong & Awake. I'm Dane Sanders. 

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Mitch 01:23

We've talked a lot about options and decisions and decision fatigue and I think underneath all that is the universal We've got death taxes and decisions There will be lots of decisions that will come up against in life whether that's whether to stick with a relationship Whether to change jobs whether to move This decision is, do we stick with something? 

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Mitch 01:43

Maybe it's working. Maybe it's not. Maybe there's something new, another path that we could go down. And there's about a thousand different frameworks, decision making tools. Um, but I'd love to explore. This question, how do we make the best decision when we're considering something new or to stick with something that we're doing right now? 

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Dane 02:05

Yeah. I love that question because it, it isn't just how to make any decision. It's a particular scenario that you're in and it's highly solvable, but it doesn't feel that way all the time. So the situation I'm hearing you describe and tell me if I'm wrong is you're in some status quo thing. There's something that's actually going on right now. 

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Dane 02:26

It's kind of working enough, but there's some sense of dissatisfaction or curiosity of like, could something, could this other thing that you just heard about be just a little better? Right. So people are dating with, you know, and, and they, this is awful, but like you, you meet your girlfriend's sister, like awkward, but you get the point, right? 

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Dane 02:49

Like, there's a sense of like, there's some, there's other things out there. That are competing for the solve on the problem you're trying to address and, let's also assume that people want to be integrous, right? They don't want to be duplicitous and, and give false impressions in multiple directions, but they're, they're really at a point where they're like, I either need to stick with this thing and, and get it off the table or. 

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Dane 03:12

I need to make the leap and I need to decide if these other options or other considerations are worth entertaining. And, and this is something that I think, because people don't have a clear process to walk through, they end up kind of stuck, almost like in a position of paralysis. And it's so unnecessary. 

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Dane 03:31

There really is a very A sustainable, provable way for you to go through a process, a sustainable, provable, I don't know if that's quite the right words, um, replicable way, like a process that you can learn and use over and over and over again to figure out if this new thing is for you or not.  

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Dane 03:49

Annie Duke, which she talks a lot about as a professional poker player, is that all decision making, Our bets that we're making and there's no we don't know for sure on the outcome and there's oftentimes we we think we have to either know for certain that something's going to happen and and knowing for certain almost never is available to us almost always we're making decisions without with incomplete data. 

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Dane 04:11

And then sometimes we make up stuff that isn't true. But what we want to do is have a process where we can illuminate what we do know what is available to us and, and to get a sense in our conscience as to whether or not we have belief that something might make more sense than something else. And. We always have the incumbent, right? 

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Dane 04:29

The status quo, whatever is currently going on. And, and then we have these other solutions and the, you know, the quote that I use almost in every conversation I'm in, uh, the Kierkegaard quote of man finds the level of despair he can tolerate and calls it happiness. That's status quo. And the question is, do we want an upgrade? 

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Dane 04:48

Now we could stay an upgrade. With whatever we're doing, that's a different conversation. The thing we want to address today is when do we leave? Uh, you know, we could have that, um, uh, should I stay or should I go now? Like in the backdrop right now? Like this is a, that the reason that song has stood the test of time is because this is a question that humans have been up against over and over and over again. 

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Dane 05:12

Should I stay with what I have? Or should I go to something new? And probably it'd be helpful for folks at home to have something in mind. And I have a hunch, even as I'm saying these words, there's something present that's coming to mind right now, a job, a relationship, a, uh, a geographical location of where you're living, uh, whether or not to, um, uh, you know, Going that epic vacation or not, whether or not to buy that thing or save your money, um, whether to rent or to purchase, like there's so many considerations. 

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Dane 05:50

And again, with imperfect data, you gotta make a decision because even if you stay with what you got, that's a decision, that's a bet. So what we're interested in today is talking about a process by which you can get the right variables on the table. Take a hard look at him and make a call. And I'm hopeful that as folks do that, they can see making the hard call, the thing that the uncomfortable call will probably serve you. 

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Dane 06:19

Now that said, it's not, this is not a fixed thing. The uncomfortable call might be to stay. The uncomfortable call might be to jump. But there's probably something that's a little discomforting that we want to illuminate and that's not the default. But with this other information, I think it'll help you see a path forward because if you're invited in your conscience to make the hard choice, you need to have a case behind it. 

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Dane 06:43

You need to have a story, a reason why you're making that call. And I think this process we're going to talk about today will really help you.  

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Mitch 06:50

Yeah, I love that because it is, it's important. I'm all for starting with the end in mind. Also. Getting super clear on where you're at now. The status quo is equally as important because like you're saying, staying is a decision. 

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Mitch 07:07

It's, it's still a proactive choice. Um, so let, can we start with that? Like, what is your current status? The status quo?  

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Dane 07:15

Yeah. I mean, this is whatever, whatever is. Like one way to look at it is what are you thinking about leaving? Right? Uh, you're in a job, you get paid money. Uh, you, you have been at that job for some time. 

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Dane 07:29

You've been doing certain skills for some time. I'm in a conversation with a friend of mine now, there's a really high level kind of executive role at a really significant organization. And he is up against some serious questions about if he stays, what's going to be asked of him. And if he leaves, What will that mean? 

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Dane 07:52

And those, I think that's what's great. Is this individual has a very transparent, real conversation going where things are out in the open and all parties are, are wrestling through the dynamics. And, and, and what, what I love about those moments, even though they can be fierce in their nature, by being courageous and getting things on the table, it gives the greatest likelihood that everyone's going to get what they want. 

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Dane 08:18

Yeah.  

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Mitch 08:18

Mmm,  

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Dane 08:19

and that's what we want, right? Like when people talk about like win win situations, or if you're Michael Scott, win, win, win, or, you know, whatever, but like the, we, we want at the least know what you want. And, and, and that is even hard for people. So regardless of what you want, you have what you have. 

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Dane 08:35

So status quo is what you have. And I think it's worth, if you're going to pull out a piece of paper and write it down, like what I have is a job. What I have is a house. What I have is a relationship. What I have is a, A local CrossFit gym that you go to what, and you're thinking about going to another one. 

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Dane 08:50

A declared major in college. Like do I go from, from, or, uh, biology to communications, you know, the big leap to humanities because organic chem is a little hard, you know, whatever the thing is, um, uh, you get to decide and. 

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Dane 09:10

And I think if you can establish plot point a and write it down, it'll help you because that's just telling you your starting point and, and we're going to have a process like the next set of steps will help people identify with plot point. A is status quo. Plot point B is what do they think they want that they're not getting? 

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Dane 09:30

Right. So, um, if you picture like, uh, a big, I love there's a, there's a, a, Really resourceful, um, book around marketing that talks about this very nature, my friend, Billy bro as, um, and, uh, Tiago Forte wrote this really little book called simple marketing for smart people. And they, they talk about this dynamic of, like, if you're going to try to enroll somebody in a new thing, you talk about. 

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Dane 09:56

They're, they're terrible land that they're in right now in contrast with across the bridge to the promised land of where they would like to go and pointing to those things is really helpful because you're, you're talking about where you're at and it's, it's a before and after picture. What do you have right now? 

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Dane 10:12

Take a picture of yourself and then envision a different reality. And what could that be now, what we're not doing in this exercise is trying to market people to go do something, what we're trying, even though those, those plot points are very helpful in the way that, um, uh, Tiago and Billy talk about it. 

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Dane 10:32

What we're, what we are doing is trying to get clear on the contrast, the contrast of what you have and what you wish you had, and that alone can create a weird tension and it can create motivation. Like, Oh, I really don't like what I have. And the grass is always greener, uh, idea is like, well, that will that come true, but back to Annie and her insights. 

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Dane 10:54

You don't know if you're going to get to the promised land. You don't know if that grass is as green as you think it is until you get there. So plot point B. Is a little fictional right now, and it's important to recognize that. Some people have a personality where they're gonna, I'm one of these guys where I'm like, it's gonna be amazing. 

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Dane 11:12

Everything's gonna be amazing. Make the leap, figure it out. But there's other folks that are a little bit more. They're like, it's gonna be awful. I'm gonna get there and it's gonna suck. I'm gonna wish I came. I didn't leave. And I think both are personality driven. That's not the exercise we're in either. 

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Dane 11:28

The exercise is just to get as ruthlessly clear on what you have and what's missing. What do you wish was there that isn't and get clear on that. So that's, that's step one. Where are you at with status quo?  

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Mitch 11:40

Yeah. And I think that the through line through all of this is bringing that greater clarity to it because oftentimes we can. 

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Mitch 11:47

Come to a decision and feel completely frozen because we're not really clear on what we have, what we want or anything in between, which we're going to talk about. And if anything, there isn't like a always do this or always do that.  

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Dane 12:01

That's right.  

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Mitch 12:02

Like it very much depends on your situation. scenario. And the season we can, yeah, the one thing we can encode for you is at least getting super clear on that reality. 

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Mitch 12:12

Yeah. Um, yeah, you can make the most informed,  

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Dane 12:15

forgive me. I didn't mean to cut you off. I just got excited. I love that you're pointing at this Mitch, because I think sometimes people get lost in a very generalized narrative of like, it's just hard. Well, what's hard? Like what in particular, or I'm stressed all the time. 

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Dane 12:29

Well, we'll name the stress. Like, and what is the, the root of that? Are you sure that's connected to status quo or is that connected to maybe your personality or something else? And I think, um, getting to a granular level about what is so, and what you wish was different is the beginning point and, and just sets the table for, for the right kind of ingredients to make a good decision. 

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Dane 12:52

Now from there, I think if you can get clear on that kind of plot point A and plot point B and they're in place, I think, uh, and let, let's just have a, let's, let's keep like an example in mind for everyone as they're going, like, let's go with a job. So you have a job and it pays you money and it kind of works and you've been at it for a while, but maybe as you're doing the exercise, you're realizing, like, I'm not really growing at the pace that I would like to grow or I'm, I'm curious how much value I would be in the marketplace compared to what I'm getting paid right now or maybe you're able to do the work, but there's some passion in your heart that you're just not able to access because of your current job description. 

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Dane 13:33

All those things could count, right? And it's interesting. There's, there's a vehicle by which you could potentially stay where you're at and make some requests in your current state. And get those things, that might be a really quick way to find out if you're actually in tune with reality. And it might be that there's more, more available than you think, but let's just keep going. 

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Dane 13:54

So if you have plot point a relative to, let's say a job or anything, and you're considering plot point B where there's another option out there and you're trying to figure out how do I make a strong decision from there? We need to consider this, this next set of questions, which is. What have you tried before now? 

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Dane 14:12

What have you tried before now? Um, I know for me, I have ruined many a job in my life because I would daydream about, Oh, I'd love to do this. And I'd love to do that. And I'd love to make my passion, my thing. And I ended up adding, adding, adding all these things outside of my world. Um, and oftentimes I think it has to be in the employment category, but it was, it's, it's amazing to me how, you know, If you can remove variables, like, let's say that you have a job that's really hard, but you have a passion for something else and you might discover, like, well, if I don't have to get paid for that passion, I could do it for free. 

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Dane 14:47

I could actually, I don't need to have my job compete with that passion. I could actually do that on my weekends, or I could do that on my evenings, or I could kind of build some other mechanism in and that's, that's a, that's a really cool solution, but it still comes back to where are you at? Where do you, what do you, where do you want to be? 

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Dane 15:04

And, uh, What have you tried historically? So in my case, what I've tried historically is I've jumped from job to job to job to try to find the elusive thing without going through this process of, of being, getting clear. And if I can, um, think through that exercise, another exercise could be going to my boss and saying, could we make an accommodation for my job or could my job evolve? 

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Dane 15:30

Or do you see a future for me in a different direction? All those could count. But in all cases, we're trying to think through what. Have we tried and the results we've gotten? And is there anything else that we didn't really go all the way with it? Or we, we didn't give it a wholehearted effort. I think are all really, really good exercises. 

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Mitch 15:49

Yeah.  

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Dane 15:50

And the reason that's helpful, I think, is because of the third stage, which we'll talk about in a second.  

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Mitch 15:54

Yeah. I didn't mean to cut you off there, but, uh, you know, we've talked about this in past episodes, especially ones that we've recorded around new years or, you know, decisions. Uh, New Year's resolutions, commitments, provisional commitments that we've made, and then kind of fallen off the rails. 

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Mitch 16:10

I think this exercise is so helpful, not just in these big life decisions, but even obviously in the, the smaller commitments and yes, those moments themselves, um, and being honest about what has worked and what hasn't worked, I think is also an important factor in this is that. Honesty with yourself.  

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Dane 16:31

Yeah. 

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Dane 16:32

And that it is tough, right? Um, you know, when you consider all the options, all the things that you've tried in the past, if you tried similar things in the past and it's failed over and over and over again, it might be that you think you're doing something new, but really what you're doing is you're just kind of metaphorically moving the furniture around on the deck of the Titanic. 

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Dane 16:51

It's like, you can sit, it's still taking you in the direction, whether you move the furniture or not. And. The leap might actually be in a whole different category. You might not need a new job. You actually might need something else that's new and maybe a new attitude. Maybe, maybe a new, um, work ethic, uh, maybe a new level of fitness, uh, like in terms of how you're structuring, like eating and sleeping and hydration. 

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Dane 17:18

And, and I'm not giving a nod to MWOD when I say this, but MWOD does serve a very practical purpose in a lot of people's lives, because Because it helps them level up as professionals. They're able to show up at work very differently. I show up for their family very differently and so on. So, so regardless of where your sources for those kinds of inputs, it's really important to get clear on where you're at, where you want to go and what have you tried in the past? 

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Dane 17:42

It didn't work. And why didn't it work? Why didn't it work? Was it because you were half hearted? Was it because Uh, so you could, in that case, you could kind of adjust your relation, your effort. But another could be, it actually was the wrong key for the lock you're trying to open. And it's, it's, it's, that thing was never built to open the thing that you're wanting to see happen. 

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Dane 18:07

Which I think. Is really resourceful because now you can consider option like the third step in the third step is what is it about this new thing that you're considering that is different why do why do you think this thing is going to change you. I can't tell you how many times I've said to my wife I found it the thing this is so exciting this program this product this whatever and you know again with a nod to to you. 

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Dane 18:36

Billy and Tiago is a lot of things being sold to us with before and after pictures, we sell things with before and after pictures and then what, and I, we, we get it like, it's showing that contrast. You can do that with integrity, but it still has to be something that people at home are going like, yeah, this is, this is new. 

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Dane 18:54

This is, I've not done this thing before. Um, and to get clear on like, what is the secret sauce of the, the thing that. You're considering that is fundamentally different. That will be an unlock. Now, it could be timing or other things. All of those count, but oftentimes it's something that's built into the option. 

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Dane 19:16

You're considering that that could make a big difference. So back to the job idea. You're in a situation. You have a job status quo. You're considering another job. It's on the table. You got an offer. Maybe a recruiter called you up and said, Hey, this company over here can give you 10 grand more for the same job. 

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Dane 19:33

Well, you have to ask yourself the question is money the thing that is dissatisfying, or are you just going to find yourself in a new job? And after the 10, 000 gets spent, which will happen quickly, uh, uh, you're going to still be in the same place, except for with less relational equity. Are you sure you want that in that new place? 

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Dane 19:51

And this is where I think people make really foolish bets, decisions, where they, they haven't thought through, well, what is it about that new job that actually is going to help them in the area they want, the thing they want to, to make a, like not just a title or a dollar amount, but like a, a, an environment that will foster the kind of trajectory and growth you want in your life. 

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Dane 20:14

I think is far more resourceful. So again, plot point a plot point B step one, what do you want is really the question that's different than what you have to, what have you tried in the past? That hasn't worked. Hasn't got you what you're looking for in this category. And number three, what is it about this new option you're looking at that you think is worth betting on that you think is worth putting your lifeline on the line. Like your time is your life. Do you want to make that kind of leap in this moment? It like justify that kind of a decision based on a belief in the thing itself. What is new about that thing that isn't available in the things you've tried that is worth making a bet on? 

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Mitch 20:55

And going through them in this order too is like, really important because thinking about your current status quo, like, what do you, what do you want? What's your current life like, um, gives you clarity and helps you, helps inform those, you know, following steps, like, what have you tried that hasn't worked before? 

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Mitch 21:14

Uh, I mean, if you're looking and getting clarity on, you, Pattern recognition even in what hasn't worked. Is it because of that thing itself? Is it because my attitude towards that thing? Is it because of how I was relating? Is it the season that I was in? Was I ill equipped with certain, you know, tools or resources of maturity? 

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Mitch 21:31

Like all those things help you identify, and almost put in categories, these, these parts of this decision making process to better inform what it is that next step is whether to stay or to, to go. Um, but if we consider all of those plot points up to this point, like, what is, what's the next step? 

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Dane 21:54

Yeah. I think it's, it's, it's just making a decision. It's, it's making the bet. It's rolling the dice and after you've gone through that process of understanding where you're at, where you want to go, what have you tried? 

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Dane 22:06

Why do you think this is different? Now you're in a position where you can confidently say, I'm staying where you can confidently say, I'm making the leap every moment that you know, you need to make the leap and you. Have this information in front of you. There's something inside of you. That's going to kind of gurgle, kind of bug you. 

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Dane 22:26

That's going to be like, there's something I'm just, and this is about our character, right? Our courage. Like once we see the data, it's probably time to either take the option off the table and stay where you're at. Or take the option you're on and make the jump and I have found that action, embodied action around these things, taking it off the table or making the jump actually just opens up a whole new reality that you're going to relate with the thing very differently if you stay or  

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Dane 23:03

You're going to  

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Dane 23:03

relate very differently. 

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Dane 23:04

If you leap, you're going to relate very differently with a sense of confidence that I think a lot of people are looking for when people want complete information, like a no risk decision, uh, which isn't available, uh, they can stay in paralysis for years, years, and it's so unnecessary. I would rather people make the wrong decision, make the wrong bet, find out you didn't get what you're looking for, and then make another decision that's new. 

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Dane 23:35

That will get you to where you want to go faster than staying in a place that you know won't deliver or being so afraid of making the jump. That you, you, you, you settle for despair and I think this is the gift, um, and, and going through the process of illuminating things and having a fair sense of what's in front of you, um, even if it's seasonal, even if you say, I'm not going to make the jump right now. 

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Dane 24:04

I'm going to take that off the table for three months and then relook at it in three months. I think that's totally fair. And I've seen that happen so successfully with so many people. And it, it actually removes this cognitive load of like, I don't have to think about this right now. That decision has been made now. 

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Dane 24:20

I can be all here or be all there, but I'm not stuck in the middle. And as people practice, this is a skill where you can just make better. Faster, stronger bets and decisions over and over and over again. And, and we have found that it's probably, especially in MWOD. It's so like, I mean, really, this is why we created our application process the way we did and why we talk so much about, Hey, if you're thinking about MWOD, go, go fill out the app. 

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Dane 24:47

Um, not because we think everyone's going to pick us. We literally say it's probably not for you. We say the process of answering those questions will really help you make a great decision to not do it or to do it.  

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Dane 25:02

And,  

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Dane 25:02

and I think that, that is what will be life giving for anyone. Um, I even, I would, I wish more people would go to our website, take out the application, go through the application, steal the questions for something else they want to make a decision about. 

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Dane 25:16

Go through that drill, do it and don't ever send it from one. Well, that's fine. But at least you'll be making the moves in the direction of the thing that actually you want. And that's what we want for you that we want you to get what you actually want. Uh, cause even if you get there and you discover, Oh, I didn't want like as much as I thought I did. 

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Dane 25:34

Well, now you have another chance to make another decision. Course. Correct. Go again, make a new day. One. What a golden moment that is, even when you make the wrong turn, especially when you make the wrong turn, because we all make wrong turns. Um, but you're going to get to the thing you actually want sooner by going through a steady process consistently like this. 

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Mitch 25:55

Yeah. And especially the, I want to put a kind of point on what you're talking about of the, the weight of this decision fatigue or waiting for this comprehensive, complete no risk decision, which doesn't exist. You know, people can get stuck in analysis paralysis forever. And we experience this in every moment. 

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Mitch 26:18

And again, another nod to MWOD. One of the reasons that we have such clear kind of prescriptions and parameters around participating is not because we want to lord something over you, but because we want to eliminate that decision fatigue. And so if people can't, I think it's Derek Sivers that said, you know, it's either hell yes or hell no. 

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Mitch 26:36

Or at least, you know, popularize that. That's what we want. In any decision in your life, like it should be clear. And whether you choose forever, it's off the table or for this season, it's off the table. We want that kind of clarity. And I hope these questions, uh, bring that kind of clarity to those decisions. 

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Mitch 26:58

And, you know, Dane, you, you, you teed up so perfectly. Um, I do think that the next step or maybe the plot point D E or F, whatever we're on right now would be just go apply to MWOD seriously, whether you want to do it or not, just applying, I think it's such. Uh, resource and something that I think in this ever, you know, increasingly chaotic and busy and. You know, attention fractured world that we live in. We don't take the time to actually sit through and think through these things. So even that in and of itself, self as an exercise, like to sit with something I think would be well worth your while. 

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Mitch 27:43

Did you have any words?  

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Dane 27:45

Well, just a double dog dare. I mean, maybe even triple dog dare. I know everyone at home has something. Should I stay or should I go? And to put yourself on the hook to at least Write something down, go through a process, fill out an application, have a conversation. But these plot points, I think, or these steps, I think, they really become powerful when you try them. 

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Dane 28:07

So, I, my double dog, triple dog dare would be that someone actually put them to work around a real thing in their real life today. Right now, when the podcast is over, if you're in your car, you're on a run, like stop, think, ask yourself these questions. Maybe you're home at dinner, talk about summit with somebody else. 

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Dane 28:25

And this is what I'm thinking. Am I crazy? Like that's so resourceful and, but it's only as resourceful as you put it to work. So that's my request is that people take advantage of this gold because it's transformed my life, my capacity. I can be paralyzed all the time out of not wanting to make the wrong decision. 

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Dane 28:40

And what this is. Taught me is I'm actually empowered to make decisions really consistently, and they're getting stronger and stronger and stronger with everyone. And we just want that for those who are listening.  

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Mitch 28:51

Absolutely. Thanks, Dane. And, uh, if anyone wants to check out the application, find out more about MWOD, just go to the links in the description and show notes or visit MWOD. 

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Mitch 29:04

io MWOD. io. Thanks, Dan. Forward slash apply. Forward slash apply. Yeah. If you want to go straight there. Why waste any time? Forward slash apply.  

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Dane 29:13

All right. Thanks, Mitch.  

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Mitch 29:15

Thanks, Dan. Take care.  

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Dane 29:16

Men & Women Of Discomfort is our membership community and we are open to everyone but keep in mind our tagline is it's probably not for you if we're wrong about that or if you want to find out for yourself you can find us at mwod.io. The information and material that we're sharing both of this podcast or anything connected to men or women of discomfort or flying s incorporated it's all for general information purposes only. You should not rely on this material or information on this podcast as a basis for making any kind of decision. 

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Dane 29:41

We do our best to keep everything up to date and correct, and we do a lot of due diligence, but the responsibility is on you to make sure that you're in sync with your own medical professionals that you wouldn't see what we're offering here as somehow a warranty or representation in any kind expressed or implied about this being complete, accurate, reliable, suitable, or comprehensive in any kind of way. 

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Dane 29:55

It's critical you own your agency, which is at the heart of everything we do at Men & Women Of Discomfort, we invite you to take the input that we're offering and consider it for yourself. And if it's helpful, please do take advantage of it. But if you do, it's you who is taking the opportunity and we're assuming that you've done your due diligence with it. 

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Dane 30:07

Thanks.

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